Printed from the blog of Lori Greene, AHC/CDC, CCPR, FDAI
Allegion
Email: lori_greene@allegion.com, Blog: www.idighardware.com or www.ihatehardware.com


Jul 25 2018

WW: Shhh…nobody will ever know!

Just because closer reinforcements are not visible doesn’t mean they aren’t necessary!  Yes – this is a fire door.

Thanks to Eyal Bedrik of Entry Systems Ltd. for the photos!

16 Responses to “WW: Shhh…nobody will ever know!”

  1. Andrew says:

    Time for some Nutcerts. 30 mins of work and some new bolts.

  2. Bryan says:

    and the screw missing from the soffit plate!

  3. David Bell says:

    If you look at the picture close, you will see that the installer did not use the screws provided by the closer manufacturer. They use framing screws that are no long enough to catch the backing. This is not a door issue, it is an untrained installer issue. All hollow metal doors come with closer backing as far as I have seen in the last 10 years.

  4. Kenton Higgins says:

    Those look like Hebrew characters on the opposite door so I expect the deficiency will be rectified directly!

  5. Martin Badke (aka lauxmyth) says:

    By my memory, nutserts* are not fire rated. Well, my set is not but yours might be. Thru bolts are rated.
    *Nutserts is a trade name here so I am not correcting your spelling as such.

    Besides, I think thru bolts are easier to install than nutserts.

    (I was initially trying to guess what that yellow thing was. After zooming in on the second door, I realize it covered the door tag which could identify the location.)

  6. Jess the door closer doctor says:

    I thought last week’s WW was a bad one, this one just as bad or even worse!

    Again, screw pack needed, thru-bolting highly recommended, as I say in my 4 L’s of closers, Loose fasteners is one of them!

  7. Peter Schifferli says:

    Tapping screws should *never* be used to install door closers and panic exit devices and such on hollow steel doors although they often are. Steel (not aluminum) NutSert inserts should be utilized IMHO.

    • Martin Badke (aka lauxmyth) says:

      “Never” needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Pulled the instructions for 4040XP from shelf and they provide SRT and give instructions to install. If the metal is thin with no backing, going for 1/4-20 bolts which are also in the package is not an improvement. They provide sex nuts for the 1/4-20 bolts to maintain fire rating on wood doors. (My understanding of code here in Canada.)

  8. Rich says:

    Sorry, I disagree with nutserts. Steel sex bolts is the only way to go to be strong.

  9. Scott Foley says:

    Only my humble opinion… If the door is properly re-inforced,installer uses the correct bit size and tap vs screw size the closer under typical or even high traffic conditions will never come off the door.

    Yes Sex Bolts would be an upgrade but not a required one or to some not a desired look and will add alittle more time to each install.

    Thats all I got!

    -Big Door

  10. john says:

    I agree with thru bolt for hollow metal doors! The self tap screws are not deep threads for wood doors ether?

  11. Rich McKie says:

    One of our schools had a major renovation and the contractor used SRT (self reaming and tapping)screws to install 4040 closers on the exterior doors.
    They didn’t go to the trouble to replace the missing floor stops and also saved some time by not installing the arm to spindle securing screw. Kids, being kids, tend to force doors beyond their intended opening angle so it was only a matter of time before the SRT screws started to pull out of the sheet metal. Of course, with the closer body not attached to the arm there was nothing to stop the body from falling. After one child was hit by a plummeting closer (Luckily on her arm, not her head!) we were called in to properly re-install all of the closers in the school.

  12. Kent Usher says:

    The closer on the other door (second image) is also disconnected.

  13. David Birozy says:

    Bolts? We don’t need no stinkin’ bolts.

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