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Answers to your door, hardware, and code questions from Allegion's Lori Greene.
Jan 17 2014
From Stephen Richardson and Joe Beeman of Allegion, here’s a hinge modification they saw recently. Would you consider this acceptable? Why / why not?
I have never seen this type of hinge before. Is it a field modified or does someone manufacturer this? I don’t see why it would not be acceptable.
Let me know.
I would not accept that modification. It significantly changes the design of the hinge.
But that’s beside the point, that entire Dutch Door modification is not acceptable. There is nothing acceptable, not even the flip-down door stop!
I agree with Chuck. Also, there is between the door halves to support the core. Clever; but not a lasting solution.
What if it is not a fire rated door. No evidence of a label on the edge. Seems to work, pretty clever way to convert a single panel to dutch. At least now the middle hinge is doing something.
Sounds like we’re assuming it’s a rated door. However, I see no labels to indicate any type of rating. As a non-rated door, I wouldn’t worry about a modification, since they don’t even have to have a door at all.
I see a pinching hazard, so no I would not supply this.
Let’s not look at it from the negative – they didn’t have to change the frame to put in a dutch door. The hinge count is right – if (1/2 + 1/4) + (1/2 + 1/4) = 1-1/2 butts.
But on the negative side it would be hard to put on the transaction counter often found on a dutch door – what does the top edge of the bottom leaf look like – unfinished is my guess. And the kick down hold is legal unless this is a rated door and obviously this is not rated because it has been field modified and we all know that isn’t allowed.
This is refer to as a goof up hinge, somebody missed the detail or ordered the frame wrong
I’ll bet you’re right! I didn’t know it had an official name. 🙂
I am with those who see no fire label so let’s not hold it to those standards. Now following the Law of Gravity is not debatable. We often think of the hinge holding the door up by the screws but this is not generally where the weight of the door is born. The hinge leaf sits in a mortise for a reason and most of the door weight is carried by the hinge sitting in that cut out with the hinge screws mostly keeping it there. However, doors really fall away from the hinges and so the bottom hinge holds most of the weight UP, but the top hinge keeps the door from tipping OUT.
The lower half of the door is being held by 2 screws only at the top which are now in tension. Yes, it is half the weight of a full door plus a bit for any shelf ***until*** somebody leans on it. I see this going down fast. I predict pain.
Really an ingenious way to add a dutch door application to an existing opening without going full length hinge or frame mods.
If its not a factory custom hinge, they did a great job of re-machining the hinge.
Look closely at the stain finish on the top and bottom door sections…
It looks like two different doors were used to put this together.
The top door portion appears darker….
That is guaranteed to fail.
I have modified doors and frames to become “dutch doors”.
It involves cutting out the hinge pocket,adding a hinge backing plate cutting out of the frame and welding in a new section.
Mortising the doors to match.
Not that hard.
For a non rated door, and the owner wanting to replace a full size door with a dutch door for the least cost possible with no guarantees, you cannot beat this modification. It works. Not exactly kosher, but for low usage in certain areas I think it would be ok. cost for a new dutch door frame, dutch door, and hardware = $$$ cost for modification = $
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