Printed from the blog of Lori Greene, AHC/CDC, CCPR, FDAI
Allegion
Email: lori_greene@allegion.com, Blog: www.idighardware.com or www.ihatehardware.com


Aug 19 2016

FF: Two Bars Are Better Than One?

Category: Egress,Fixed-it Friday,Panic HardwareLori @ 12:05 am Comments (18)
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A while back, I posted some photos of a door that had panic hardware along with several stationary push bars.  Although the model codes don’t specifically address this application, I don’t think it’s acceptable.  Of course, an AHJ may disagree with me.

Here’s another example, in a Fixed-it Friday photo that was sent to me by JD Stalter of Allegion.  What do you think?

Two Bars

18 Responses to “FF: Two Bars Are Better Than One?”

  1. lach says:

    Are they both operational?

  2. Jeff says:

    2 comments:
    1) Awesome – they put in a push bar for little people!
    2) if the bottom bar isn’t working and somebody came up (rapidly) and pushed…meanwhile the door remaining closed and secured, and the person wrenches their wrist, wouldn’t that be opening up potential lawsuits?

  3. Mike Meredith says:

    My first thought is that something happened to the originally installed panic bar, and caused it to no longer work/function. Rather that remove the old bar and then be faced with patching/repairing the existing mounting holes, they may have decided to just leave it in place and add a 2nd, new panic bar. Maybe? Maybe not.
    Not very aesthetic looking.
    Doesn’t seem like a good practice, especially if one of the bars isn’t functional?

  4. Jean Tessmer says:

    I think the a few deciding factors on if it is acceptable is, which one do you push to get out and how will you know unless of course you can push both at the same time.

  5. Don Cherry says:

    If they are both functional, how could it be legal? That would be both two motion egress and prior knowledge. I’d have to believe even a quick check would raise concerns. Even if one bar is disabled, it’s still confusing.

  6. Krystina says:

    My kid’s daycare has a similar set up, except the bar above is actually below, and it’s a panic device that connects the a mag lock, which was installed after construction for an outdoor keypad. This was and AHJ approved work around for not having a motion sensor. How he was willing to approve the request to exit button that was about 72″ AFF is beyond me!

  7. Lee Francisco says:

    Wouldn’t this opening require 2 motions to exit if they are both latching devices?

  8. Glenn Younger says:

    I’m away from the office, but I know that in our state (CA) the CBC does not allow more than one bar across the door. Sorry I don’t have the code reference, but I’m sure of this one.

  9. Marcus Muirhead says:

    What happened to ONE hand, no prior knowledge? Maybe they disabled one device, removed bolts/latches, and just added the second one? If the both latch, that’s definitely a code violation.

  10. Dave Taschuk says:

    What’s the reason for not removing the old bar, i wouldn’t accept that -1 looks like crap -2 causes confusion on an exit door -3 not the correct way to do the job

  11. Dave Curis says:

    Must have gotten tired of dealing with the Internal Rods of the Dorma or Jackson Hardware and went to a rim device.

    Should have the old hardware removed but that would mean removing the door and pulling the internal hardware.

    Unless the idea was one for short people and one for tall folks.

  12. John Dalrymple says:

    It’s a side by side comparison of two different manufacturers’ products using two different actuating methodologies.

    And no, I don’t think this is legal either. If both are operable then the door isn’t openable under the single motion egress principle and if only one is functional then the opening fails the “no special knowledge or tool” principle.

  13. Vince Black says:

    Otherwise known as a Chi-Town special.

  14. DAVID FEDERICO says:

    As they said in the sequel Mad Max beyond thunderdome ” Two go in …one comes out ” one of those bars need to go .lol

  15. Khozema kazi says:

    Unacceptable.
    Exit device is designed to open the door in emergency by hand or body and such push bars as in this picture will not allow this design function.

  16. Hamza Ali says:

    Might be one of them is dysfunctional. Instead of removing it and patching up the cut-outs they thought of leaving it there on the door.

  17. Eric says:

    Perhaps the bottom one is a towel bar. ; )

  18. David Scott Kenyon says:

    Having two panic bars is confusing and probably not legal. Do you need to push both to exit? Also disturbing is the hold open kick at the bottom rail. No one seemed to mention that the hinges of this door have been altered. There are too many holes in the frame. It is not a rated door so it probably does not matter – however it appears sloppy. It would be interesting to see the strike side of the door frame – that might explain which one of the panic devices actually latches the door.

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