Printed from the blog of Lori Greene, AHC/CDC, CCPR, FDAI
Allegion
Email: lori_greene@allegion.com, Blog: www.idighardware.com or www.ihatehardware.com


Jul 10 2013

WW: New and Improved Fire Door Hold-Open

It’s Wednesday, and you know what that means!  Another application that leaves me wordless!  Jeff Tock of Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies sent me these photos of the integral stop on a door closer being used to hold the fire door open.  Y’all know that’s not ok – right?

New Fire Door Hold Open

New Fire Door Hold Open

14 Responses to “WW: New and Improved Fire Door Hold-Open”

  1. Safecrackin Sammy says:

    It would be interesting to see the last FDAI for this door to see if this was even noted….

    However I did note that Ya’ll used Ya’ll again…..

    That’s twice this year…….

    • Lori says:

      It’s impossible to know if it was in this position if/when an inspector looked at it. From what Jeff told me, the facility moves the stop to the “hold-open position” when they need it, and then they put it back in the stop position.

      I like “y’all”…it’s inclusive. It reminds me of watching Hee-Haw when I was a kid. “I searched the world over and thought I’d found true love…you met another and pffft – you was gone.”

  2. Eric Rieckers says:

    It’s impossible to “see it all” in this industry. People are so creative when trying to overcome a minor inconvenience, such as opening doors.

  3. Andy Lindenberg says:

    How ingenious! That supports the argument for application specific, handed closer arms.

  4. D Hall says:

    I have a health facility that the AHJ approved hold open closers on 20min patient rooms as long as they had a procedure established that company personnel close the doors in cases of fire, smoke or fire alarm and they address this procedure at each monthly meeting.

  5. Chuck says:

    Did you know the plural form of “Y’all” is “All Y’all”?
    I learned that on a visit to Tennessee a few years ago.

  6. Jess says:

    hello,

    looks like someone took advantage of the stud that is used on the stop arm, and turned it into a mackeshift hold open arm,

    i really dont think this is what the engineers at (non-IR brand) had in mind,

    for those wondering about the brand of the closer, it’s a Sargent (product of ASSA ABLOY) using the heavy duty parallel rigid arm

    -Jess the door closer doctor

  7. Rich says:

    Hey gang. Did anyone else note that the arm position is wrong on this as well. It appears to be a LHR closer on a RHR door.

    • Jess says:

      this actually is a NON handed stop arm, there are 2 holes for the lug to fit into, depending on hand of the door. in this case, it’s set to a right hand use on a left hand swing, causing the lug to hold open the door (door was opened and person put lug in hole for right hand use)

      -Jess the door cloer doctor

  8. Brendan Daley says:

    D Hall…
    I am pretty sure that is a written exemption in NFPA 101 about patient room doors.
    I don’t like it because product exist specifically for the purpose of patient room doors, but $$$ seems to always be the problem.

  9. Rich says:

    Sorry for the confusion. I was refering to the position of the arm in the closer body. I may be mistaken on this one, but an ingersol product closer would have the arm closer to the hinge end of the body for a PA installation.

  10. Danilo Manlulu says:

    I would like to know if a (double door) width of 4′-8″ is acceptable in elevator lobby.
    Currently i have a (double door) width of 6′-0″ on our proposed layout and i don’t have enough space as it approaches the opening of the elevator with only 2 1/4″ gap from my hold open door frame.

    • Lori says:

      Hi Danilo –

      You would need to have an unequal leaf pair, with one leaf providing at least 32″ clear between the face of the door open to 90 degrees and the edge of the other door in the closed position. If you did an equal-leaf pair with a total width of 4′-8″, it would not be acceptable for accessibility or egress. If the doors were serving a large occupant load, you’d need to make sure that you are providing enough egress capacity, but for an elevator lobby the smaller unequal leaf pair should be sufficient.

      – Lori

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