Printed from the blog of Lori Greene, AHC/CDC, CCPR, FDAI
Allegion
Email: lori_greene@allegion.com, Blog: www.idighardware.com or www.ihatehardware.com


Jul 02 2013

WWYD: Help Wanted

I answer A LOT of questions every day, and I love doing it.  I’m so glad to be able to provide this resource for our staff and customers, and anyone else who comes across my site.  But sometimes I get questions that I don’t have a good answer for, and that’s where you come in.  Please leave a comment if you have any insight on ANY of these questions…

A) Delayed Egress:  I have heard of some jurisdictions which have specific requirements for electromagnetic locks, and areas which do not allow mag-locks at all.  But I’m wondering if there are any state or local codes with code modifications for delayed egress locks.  If you are aware of any requirements specific to delayed egress that vary from the IBC or NFPA 101, I’d love to hear about them!

B) Special Closer Application:  Keith Nelsen of Lindquist Security Technologies sent me this photo to see if I had any ideas for retrofitting this gate/door with a closer.  The door currently has spring hinges which are slamming the door (not a surprise).

Angled Gate

C) Transformer Vaults:  Andy Lindenberg of Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies asked me where to find the fire resistance requirements for walls and doors surrounding a transformer vault.  I found something that allowed sprinklers to be omitted from the transformer vault if the room had 2-hour rated walls, but is there a requirement for transformer vaults stated somewhere else in the IBC?

D) Mystery Pivot:  Dwight Isaacs of US Homeware is looking for information on this pivot.  Is anyone familiar with it?

Pivot 2

Pivot 1

E) Unidentified Panic DeviceScott Sabatini of Door + Hardware Consultants sent me this photo looking for a manufacturer and model number.  Anyone recognize it?

Unidentified Panic

F) WWYD?:  And a couple more that came in as “check this out!” rather than as a question, but I thought you might enjoy adding your two cents worth…what would you have done differently to avoid these problems?

From Brendan Daley of Securadyne:

Dents

And from Jeff Tock of Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies (hint: the answer is not to move the closer to the other side of the door):

Too Tight

Thanks in advance for your help!

18 Responses to “WWYD: Help Wanted”

  1. Lee Francisco says:

    For the top picture. I’ve used a concealed door closer on a half door once in 15 years. It was a Perko Concealed Door closer. I believe they are manufactured in England. Must have worked as we haven’t had any complaints about it. http://www.samuel-heath.com/products/products/door-closers/1802/

  2. Rick Page says:

    Special Closer – Keith look at the Perko Concealed closer I believe you will be well satisfied in this application.

    Mystery Mortise exit looks like an Old Precision

    • MIKE says:

      RE: Perko concealed closer

      That looks like a perfect solution, I was just gonna throw out the idea of maybe using an Ives 805. This wouldn’t be a perfect solution but easily installed if it suited the application. I came here to learn about the open back strikes and was glad I did so I thought I would try and repay the favor with my 2 cents 🙂 Thanks.

  3. Charlie Hobbs says:

    On the last picture you need a mag holder extension

  4. charles says:

    on the first picture, just you regulare hinges?? and push the door closed?

    on the last one, get a mag holder extender, if it does not create an obstrucyion problem?

    On delayed locks, we have no admendments to that section. We do on magnetic lock doors not allow “push buttons” needs to be touch bar or other approved bar.

  5. charles says:

    C) Transformer Vaults: Andy Lindenberg of Ingersoll Rand Security Technologies asked me where to find the fire resistance requirements for walls and doors surrounding a transformer vault. I found something that allowed sprinklers to be omitted from the transformer vault if the room had 2-hour rated walls, but is there a requirement for transformer vaults stated somewhere else in the IBC?

    I believe it is in the electical code, which you get to by reference from the building code

    • Jim Sills says:

      The omission of sprinkler heads in an electrical vault with two hour rating is from NFPA 13 —— 8.15.11.3
      Sprinklers shall not be required in electrical equipment rooms where all of the following conditions are met:

      (1)
      The room is dedicated to electrical equipment only.

      (2)
      Only dry-type electrical equipment is used.

      (3)
      Equipment is installed in a 2-hour fire-rated enclosure including protection for penetrations.

      (4)
      No combustible storage is permitted to be stored in the room.

  6. Lee Francisco says:

    Regarding the crushed closer cover. You could use wide throw hinges but it could change the location of the closer on the door and frame. Depending on the size of the hinge you may need a special template closer that is designed to be used wide throw hinges.

  7. Andy Lindenberg says:

    Regarding the closer being pinched behind the door – Could it be that they have templated it for a 180 degree swing, bringing it closer to the pivot point (hinge). the wall magnet dictates the space behing the door.The door doesn’t need to swing more than 90 degrees. If templated that way, the closer would move away from the hinge, helping aleviate the problem.

    A second suggestion would be to use a pull side top jamb mounted track closer, like an LCN 4040T. The closer would then be mounted over the door and not move with the door. A minimum of approximately 4″ above the door would be required.

  8. Safecrackin Sammy says:

    This is like a regular day at work!

    B: Check out the Sure Close from D&D Technologies.. Used on pool gates but it does have hydraulic close.

    D: The broken part is a Kawneer SAM II arm used with the COC closer. Any glass storefront supply house should have it. Several differnt models due to top web/offset but not uncommon.

    E: Smells of Corbin… Better pics of the cylinder or any info on the key head would help identify the cylinder which appears to be original.

    F: RADIUS end bars would help move the ends away from the frame at open… Maybe up the back check on the closer or install a crash chain to limit the open travel.

    Top jamb track mount for the closer should help avoid crashing the wall.

  9. Jim White, AOC says:

    For the angled gate, the Perko concealed closer idea was good as long as the closer will fit in that stile. They have controlled and uncontrolled versions. A controlled version would be needed.
    There is a company in China called Waterson, http://www.waterson.com, that makes a closer in a hinge. It has adjustable sweep and latch speeds and a built in stop.

  10. H. M. Kang says:

    D: I’m not sure but it looks like an arm of overhead concealed closer. What do you think?

  11. Khozema Kazi, AHC/FDAI says:

    B) install a cabinet door silencer http://www.superiorcabinet.com/casi.html

  12. Jason says:

    Wide throw hinges and adjust the closer as necessary or change the closer
    to PA mount ( 4040XP EDA templated to 180 Deg.)

  13. MIKE says:

    RE: Unidentified panic device

    This looks like an old Von Duprin 8875 with cylinder dogging.

  14. Vince Black says:

    The broken COC looks an awful lot like a Kawneer “Shotgun” end load arm.

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