If you’ve been following along, you know that I just returned from a trip to Italy! Thanks to decent wifi and the ability to travel with my laptop (remember the old desktop days?), I kept up with your questions pretty well. My inbox barometer stands at about 50 emails that need my attention, so if you’re one of the 50 people waiting for an answer, thanks for your patience!
As I visited more than a dozen Italian cities, some of my Facebook friends were asking, “Where are the door photos??” Believe me, I have A LOT, and some of them will be featured in the September issue of Door Security + Safety Magazine. I will share that article when it’s published, but in the meantime, I have some other interesting “Doors of Italy” to share.
When I was writing specifications, I had a few projects where the architect wanted the doors and frames to be flush with the wall on the push side. The cost of this application usually resulted in the design being changed to standard doors and frames, but it is not uncommon to see this in Italy. And to be completely honest, it’s confusing – at least to American tourists. I saw so many people trying to pull the door open rather than pushing it. In some cases, they thought the door was locked and waited outside the restroom until someone came along and pushed the door in.
The photos below are from our hotel in Venice. As you can see, the doors are flush with the corridor wall – they swing into the hotel rooms. Have you ever specified, supplied, or installed doors like this? What do you think?
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WOW LORI! FORGET THE DOORS, WHATS WITH THE SUPER SCARY HALLWAY? I WOULDN’T WANT A ROOM AT THE FAR END. LOOKS LIKE SOMETHING OUT OF A HORROR MOVIE!
GOT TO LOVE VENICE!
It didn’t seem quite that scary in person, but it was a little stark. It was a nice, new hotel. Luckily our room was not down at the far end! 🙂
– Lori
They swing into the room from the corridor side?
Hi Scott –
Yes, they swing into the hotel room from the corridor.
– Lori
How about showing us a frame profile.
Beautiful design. I really like the aesthetics of the opening. Some people (including me) may have a bit of learning curve when first encountering this type of opening.
Hi John –
Check out this website for some details: https://www.ags-systems.info/en/flush-door/.
– Lori
I have run into these doors before and they are definitely “Norman Doors”. If you dont know what that is, check out this explanation from 99% Invisible (one of my favorite pod casts) and Vox News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY96hTb8WgI
Its a good video for us door people to view.
Recently we have sold and installed 45 minute frame and doors flush mounted. A few things to keep in mind is the fact that the door can not swing more than 90 degrees as it hits the frame. In order to accommodate the desired look we used invisible hinges with an overhead closer. Rabbeted lock and hinge edges as well 2 1/4″ thick doors were some of the challenges that were faced. Not to mention the matching panels of Teak wood that were blueprinted to match with the door and transom. If not for the fact that this was for a very high end condominium project on the west coast the cost would be prohibitive.
Nate, I’d love to know who’s doors and frames you used to get the fire rating.
Was in Cancun last year and stayed at the new TRS Coral . Their doors were similar using SOSS hinges and the look was quite effective. The flush look is the newest norm
Anyone familiar with EZ-Jamb a product line?
It’s a knock down frame with tapable edges. You can order them prepped for SOSS hinges and the effect is nice.
I had some fabricated for an Art Gallery for a 14′ opening and it came out spectacular. The guys in engineering will work with you to fabricate anything within the range of their tooling.
What type of frames are used with these doors? Do you have pics of the frames that you can add to this post?
Hi Eric –
I’m not sure if this was the manufacturer of the doors and frames in our hotel, but they were similar.
https://www.ags-systems.info/en/flush-door/
– Lori
This is becoming the norm on high end condos and office buildings. Companies like Lualdi are making a killing.
We’ve done a few of these but none were fire rated. The frame company we used is called EZ Concept with their EzyJamb ISD. Hardware is definitely tricky. You can get away with 1 3/4″ thick doors with some hardware combinations but others require the 2 1/4″ thick doors. Think Timely frames less casing and the flanges are perforated and shaped like a metal drywall corner so you mud right up to the rabbet.
Maybe to solve the problem of people pulling the door (unless the doors are fire rated, which is unusual for frames in such an application {e.g. the ISD inswing frame from EZJamb, which is not rated}), a fail-safe elec strike can be used together with a communicating function lockset (trim on inside, blank on secure side). After someone uses a card reader it will force the people to push the door open, as there would be no trim to pull on. In the event of a power failure, the fail safe strike will disengage and allow the door to be opened from the outside if needed.
We are doing a job right now with EZYJambs. The doors need to be rabbeted on the top and both stiles on the push side.