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Answers to your door, hardware, and code questions from Allegion's Lori Greene.
Jul 08 2016
This Fixed-it Friday photo from Paul Shaaf and Kevin Lach of Twin City Hardware is a first for me. And after 7+ years of writing this blog, I don’t say that very often. Zoom in and enjoy.
Just needs the door closure attached and working!!!
Looks like the door swings into a room??
I’m thinking it is no longer fire rated. But very creative. I have seen this type of creative of “adjustments” done in churches. Volunteers can be very resourceful but not so safe.
I’m agree, might be they want change from exit usage of this door to classroom door usage . I think result not easy to guess the intention of them, any way they need put hands on to work it.
I also like the armless closer, and the wire glass in a setting intended for children. Though the lite is pretty high off the ground, so not a big threat.
I’m also curious about the layout/application such that this door would require a fire exit device. This looks like it might be a pediatric clinic, and this is the door between the treatment area and the waiting room?
I am noticing the door stop (not permitted on a rated door), but there is something odd about the closer. The housing is there, but I don’t see an arm. Is there a new product I am not aware of?
Not a new product – just a closer without its arm. :\
Besides the previously discussed problems…the lite cutout is too close to the exit device prep (5″ minimum clearance) It’s obviously in a frame not designed for a dutch door application. The middle hinge has been cut in two on the door leaf. It must be a field modification, and I doubt if the meeting rails are ‘firestop’ material (if there’s a rail at all). There’s no overlapping astragal on the bottom of the top leaf–it’s required for the door to be self-closing.
The overlapping astragal would be mounted on the pull side of the bottom edge of the top leaf. But I doubt they installed one.
ok, lets forget all about any fire label/rating for the moment.. it’s a jinned up
contraption, while neatly done to meet the perceived needs of some with a clueless
ego, ergo management ?
There’s more wrong than right there, that’s for sure.
I really like the custom 4.5″ x 2.25×2.25″ hinge at the middle.
Love that cut hinge!
looks like the door holder also violates the ADA code as well as the fire door requirement for self closing
All they had was a dbl egress dr & hrdw to work with. A rated dr in an unrated frame! They needed dutch dr function, so they cut it in half coping around the panic device & put a flr stop on it too! Can’t zoom in close enough, but I assume they cut the dr side of the middle hinge in half too. Wow, a lot of thought went into this, but judging from all of the modifications carried out, I’m assuming a rated opening isn’t required here.
The door has a fire label label identification on the inside rail. Even after magnifying the photo it is impossible to read. Ingenious middle hinge split. Cutting the door in half and piecing it back together with throw bolt would definitely revoke any rating classification. The closer arm has been removed so the door no longer class on it own. The door stop was illegal on a rated door assembly – however no longer rated. Could have been an exit through another room, however hard to tell if there is an exit sign.To many questions and not enough answers as to why this door has been altered. I don’t like the wire glass either. Typical case of retrofit as required – forget about the codes !
well, were i a fdai rated person i’d say, if you want to stay on the
right side of the law/fire marshal – you got 2 choices. call a qualified
door labeler and pay $1300 for the service and a $5.00 label, or replace
the contraption with a labeled door, don’t modify it and that’ll cost
you maybe $300-400…
All I can say is HUH
Is there such a thing as a fire rated Dutch door? Believe it or not, I have had an occasion for just such a door as this.
There are fire-rated Dutch doors but this is not how you do it! 🙂
Has all the earmarks of another Bill Elliott spec. Thought he retired! 🙂 🙂 🙂
is that a dig at some “bill elliot” ? like it gets “the bill elliot award” ? hehe
Bill Elliott and Bob Jutzi are two of my favorite instructors / mentors, and Jutzi likes to give Bill a hard time. But if I create a “Bill Elliott Award” based on Jutzi’s criteria, Bill will never speak to me again.
We all continue to learn here. Thanks Lori.
I seem to have forgotten something here and the comment about the 5″ clearance brings it up. What have I forgotten and where is it in the code? I have probably committed that violation more than once.
Hi Rich –
The minimum clearance between cutouts for vision lights and hardware is not specified in the model codes. It is part of each manufacturer’s listing procedures and can vary depending on the manufacturer and the type of core material.
Does anyone appreciate the double blind vertical cut to the left of the center case?
That is not easy to do!
Just put a smoke seal on that bad boy and call it a day……..
and wait for a letter of subpoena……….
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